[Asad 4u]

[AQN]

jee hum ney kuch aisa hi bana diya hey Pakistan ko .... isi baarey mey tu behas horahi hey doosrey thread (Why I love Pakistan!) ..... but u know ye sab dekh k padh key bohat sey log yey sawal khud sey kernay pey majboor hojatein hein ki ... WHY I love Pakistan? ....

lekin zahir hey yahan Love Pakistan sey murad poori Pakistani Qaum hey ...

[HULK]

AQN aik tasheeh main ker doon :)
Being a muslim, hamara mazhab ummah per to zor deta hai, KAUM per nahin :)
what I am trying to say here is, we should be one as an UMMAH :)

hum pehley musalmaan hain phir pakistani.

mera khayal hai ke hu behes ko wahin aik hi thread main continue rakhina to ziada behter hoga:) cause aisey divert ho jayengey.

[AQN]

Originally Posted by Emblem99

AQN aik tasheeh main ker doon :)
Being a muslim, hamara mazhab ummah per to zor deta hai, KAUM per nahin :)
what I am trying to say here is, we should be one as an UMMAH :)

hum pehley musalmaan hain phir pakistani.

mera khayal hai ke hu behes ko wahin aik hi thread main continue rakhina to ziada behter hoga:) cause aisey divert ho jayengey.

Yeah I understand your point ...but as we're talking about Pkaistan here so said things in this regard.

Like first we have to prove to be a HUMAN & MUSLIM ....rest will be done automatically.

[HULK]

AQN, even before we are human beings, we are muslims :)
when a child is concieved and the fetus is in the devolping stage, ALLAH SWT asks the angel to insert ROOH aka SPIRIT in the body of the fetus in the 8th week I guess.. (i do not remember correctly, I will look up and post again). And the moment the child is concieved, its spirit is muslim. The spirit is already existing in Jannah. but the body is not yet formed. Therefore, the spirit is muslim long before the body comes into existance:)

then the child is born and then is termed as a human being...so my point is, that long before a child is concieved, its spirit exists and is already muslim. That is why we use the word REVERT for those non muslims who turn to islam, becaue their spirit was muslim it is their destiny that took them to a non muslim home and non muslim parents but then at a certain age he or she realizes the truth and is then REVERTED back to islam :)

[AQN]

Exactly ... I knew that every living person is Muslim once (s)he is a living soul ... the religion is then set by her/his family ... thats why I used HUMAN & MUSLIM ... plus my point was as sometime even ALLAH asks us to be a Human rather specifically telling or highlighting things as a Muslim (though if we become true Muslim, then, we don't need any extra quality to prove our any other identity) .... like Haqooq-ul-Ebad yani Bandoo'n key haqooq ... without discriminating them as Muslim, Non-Muslim .... in that scenario i said that way ... otherwise agreed of course with what you said ....

Plus ALLAH never says that do not group yourself as community ...as Nation ... so topic under discussion was something about this level of Identity of us ... The Pakistani as a Nation.

I like you're raising points and clearing things and I hope you won't take me otherwise as well.

[HULK]

No sister not at all.....knowledge always expands and enhanced when you discuss and spread it :)

I never said that ALLAH SWT has clearly stopped us from communilizing ourselves....My point is that in Quran and SUnnah, we have had several examples of UMMAH but none regarding millat.....

haan my own thinking tells me that yes if we are a muslim country then to save it from the hostilities of kuffars, we will perform jihad, but at the sametime, when 2 muslim countries fight, it is difficult for me to realize whether it is jihad or not. because muslims are dying on both sides.....

therefore, i strongyl believe in ummah and not that much in millat.

As far as haqooq ul ibaad are concrned.....those come after haqooq ALLAH SWT. And international brother hoood is no doubt the key factor of islamic teachings, however, when we say we are humans first then muslims, i will retaliate against this remark, because long before we are born, our souls are muslims and we are muslims, while you cannot term a soul or a fetus as a human :) cause it is not:). it is only called as human when it comes out of the womb of the mother and raises its first cry to declare the birth of a human being:).

but please do not feel that i am denying the importance of haqooq ul ibaad cause i am not. Infact, may ALLAH SWT give me the strennght for it, but i always consider human beings close to me and love them and help them because ALLAH SWT said that if you love the fellow humans for my sake, you will get the reward and I can do anything for MY ALLAH SWT. :)

[AQN]

Well I guess for the word Millat you can consider "Qoum" ... and there were different nations (not country wise exactly) since ages and we can see this in Quran as well. Quran is applicable till Last Day but as we know we are guided and told about everything through This but it doesn't mean that every single word is covered which have been evolved after centuries ...right!

As far as Jihad is concern, as per my knowledge term Jihad was used to fight with Non-Muslims and fight for Islam ... while currently (though people so many time name their act The Jihad but) neither seem visible anywhere in true menaing.

Yeah Haqooq Allah is something the whole universe and we are created for ... but at the same time ALLAH says, "main apney haqooq mey kotahi tu maa'f kersakta hoon per apney bandoo'n k haqooq mey kotahi us waqt tak nahi maa'f ker sakta jab tak wo na maa'f karey" .... so it is telling us that how much we should pay attention to people's rights as well ... i know you're not against my point, am just adding it up ....

The one who is fulfilling all the duites towards ALLAH but not towards His creature, will not be liked by Him even .... while we have came across with so many incident in Islamic history revealing that how a person just bestowed Jannah or Love of ALLAH for his/her single act of being humane and so.